February 13, 2024
Special Guest Dr. Liz Angoff: Explaining a Diagnosis to Parents and Children
Today’s episode is with a very special guest, Dr. Liz Angoff, a LIcensed Educational Psychologist.
Leslie and Dr. Liz take a deeper look into understanding neuropsychological testing for children in order to help parents understand their child’s amazing brains. Assessments and diagnosis can be overwhelming and confusing to both parents and children. This episode is for all parents who want to understand how their children’s brain works.
About our guest: Liz Angoff, Ph.D., is a Licensed Educational Psychologist with a Diplomate in School Neuropsychology, providing assessment and consultation services to children and their families in the Bay Area, CA. Dr. Liz’s mission is to empower children and families by helping them understand their amazing, unique brains. She is the author of the Brain Building Books, tools for engaging children in understanding their learning and developmental differences as part of the assessment process. More information about Dr. Liz and her work is available at www.ExplainingBrains.com.
Credits: Is My Child a Monster is produced by Alletta Cooper, Dale Rubury, and Leslie Cohen-Rubury. Theme music is by L-Ray Music. Public relations is handled by Tink Media. Graphics and Website Design by Brien O’Reilly. by Eric Rubury. A special thanks to everyone who contributes their wisdom and support to make this possible.
- To check out our special guest visit Dr. Liz Angoff’s website
- Visit her website full of wonderful resources.
Leslie-ism: Dr. Liz said “Talk to your child about their brain, do it early, do it often.”
- 7:50 Understanding the difference between the medical model diagnosis and neurodivergent affirming language approach
- 10:40 Different is not broken, different is a mismatch (between child and environment)
- 17:41 Diagnosis can be powerful tool, gives you the language that can help meet our child’s needs
- 20:10 Validating a child’s struggle is powerful
- 20:53 How do you tell your child about their assessment
- 28:12 How do I help my child to not have such a hard time
- 32:27 Three things that Liz wants parents to take away from this conversation
TRANSCRIPT OF SHOW:
[Music: The Wilds Beyond by L-Ray Music]
0:03 Dr Liz: Different is not broken. Different is a mismatch between the way most kids walk through the world and the way this child’s brain works best.
0:21 Leslie Cohen-Rubury: This is, Is My Child A Monster?, a parenting therapy podcast where you get to listen in as real parents and caregivers share their trials and tribulations in therapy sessions recorded live. I’m your host, Leslie Cohen-Rubury. And I’m a parent and a therapist with 38 years of experience helping families navigate this question. And no, your child is not a monster.
Most weeks, we bring you therapy sessions recorded live. This week, we have our first special guest to explore a topic in depth to give you more resources around parenting. I’m thrilled to welcome educational psychologist Dr. Liz Angoff. Dr. Liz provides assessment and consultation services to children and their families to help understand and empower neurodivergent kids. I have followed Dr. Liz’s work for quite some time and regularly recommend her website, explainingbrains.com and her book, The Brain Building Book. I’ve asked her to join me because, in the last session with David and Emily, we talked about neuropsych testing.
Testing, assessment, and diagnosis can all be confusing to both parents and children, and can be really hard to explain. That’s where Dr. Liz comes in. So let’s begin.
Leslie: Hi, Dr. Liz, how are you today?
1:51 Dr Liz: I am doing great. I’m so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.
1:56 Leslie: And thank you, I really appreciate it because I think you have so much to share. I’m very excited to learn more from you, because this is the first time we’ve met. But it’s not the first time I know of you. I’ve been really following you and recommending you for quite some time. So I’m excited to have you here as well today.
2:16 Dr Liz: Thank you so much. I’m delighted, as I said.
2:19 Leslie: Okay, so I have so much on my mind; I’m going to slow down. Can you tell me about the focus of your work?
2:28 Dr Liz: I started my career as an educator, as a teacher, and became a school psychologist. And I was working in the public school system for a long time, went into private practice about 10 years ago, and the family I was working with was really excited about their assessment. The focus of my work is assessment and understanding how kids’ brains are working and how they might be working in a different way. And the family I was working with was so excited about learning this about their child, they wanted me to talk to their child about it.
And I thought: that is amazing. Of course, that’s something we should always be doing. And I was astounded—I had never been asked. And it turns out, it’s not something that’s part of our practice. In that first meeting, talking to that child, it went sideways so quickly. We set it up in such a positive way—”Your brain is amazing.” And he was devastated and just left so disheartened.
And that has stuck with me ever since. And from that day, I just really focus a lot of my efforts on helping figuring out how we help kids understand how their brains work in a way that really feels empowering. So my work is focused on solving that problem: How do we help kids understand themselves? And it turns out, when we focus on helping kids really understand themselves, it’s easier for parents to understand the assessment process, what we’ve learned and what to do about it. So that’s the focus of what I do.
4:19 Leslie: Wow, that’s fabulous. You talked about coming from the school system. I also was in special ed. I was working with the kids and I said,”These kids go home every day to their families, and the families don’t know what to do.” So we were helping them in school, but I saw that parents needed the help. So I love that, because that’s why you’re here. You’re here talking to parents, because parents have fears, parents have the job of raising their children. And I love your approach of: if we explain things to children, parents can learn and understand their children equally. And that’s what’s so important. Would you speak more to helping parents with their fear and why they would come to you for a diagnosis, and that whole process?
5:11 Dr Liz: I think when kids are having a hard time at school or a hard time at home the first thing that a lot of parents do is they might reach out to their pediatrician, they might reach out to friends, they might start reading parenting books, which there are plenty. And listening to helpful podcasts and trying to just get as much information as possible. How do I understand my child and how do I help them? What are the strategies?
And for a lot of kids, the strategies that are out there, that are being talked about, really work well. But sometimes it’s still hard. And, usually, it’s still hard because there’s a piece of information that we’re missing—there’s something we don’t understand. And that’s when assessment becomes really important. Same thing at schools: a child is referred for assessment when the school has done what they typically do to help children, and for this particular child, they’re still stumped. They need more information. And the outcome of an assessment is going to be: What do we do differently? How do we understand this in a way that’s going to help change what we do, so we can better support this child?
So that’s what I tell families, when you’ve tried some of the common things, because a lot of times, it works. I’m a parent of a young child, I have a five-year-old. Even with all of my training—I literally have a doctorate in children—and I still don’t know what I’m doing. [Laughter] And so just reading things that are particular to my child’s situation is so helpful. But sometimes, we just need more information. And that’s when an assessment really comes in. And it’s helpful.
7:09 Leslie: Okay, love that you’re talking about getting information. In addition to what’s there, we ask the question, “What’s missing? How else can we understand it?” So here’s the thing that puzzles me. The thing that puzzles me is, sometimes there’s assessments, and sometimes the diagnosis is based on the medical model. I know I’m saying that, and a lot of parents will not understand what I mean. But I also know the thing that’s really attracted me to you was that you have a neurodivergent affirming language approach. So there’s a lot of terminology in there. I’m going to let you take it away, because I’ll just trip over my own words. Would you help us understand the difference between those two approaches, the medical model diagnosis and the neurodivergent affirming language?
8:00 Dr Liz: Yeah…So we, as psychologists, have inherited this medical approach to understanding why things are hard for kids. And the medical approach says, “Wow, something’s wrong. Let’s fix it.” I think that’s the easiest way to understand it. Because if you break your leg, that’s wrong—we should fix that. And so it’s pretty simple. There are really specific tests that tell us, “Is your leg broken or fractured or sprained?” We can do an x-ray, right? It’s a pretty straightforward equation.
What’s happened is we’ve taken that medical model and applied it to brains, and brains are more complicated. And so the language that we have for both schools, and if you’re working with a school system or an outside assessment, the language that we have is trying to find impairment, trying to find deficits, trying to find things that are hard or not working “right.” And then the extrapolation from that is, “Okay, then if it’s not “right,” we should fix it so that it’s “right.”
However, especially when we’re talking about the different ways that children show up in the world, we’re talking about a whole child. And our children, the way that their brains are wired, they come with strengths, and they come with things that make life challenging. And we’ve learned that there’s something called neurodiversity. So just the same way that we have diversity in our culture, in our ethnicity, in all kinds of different…in languages, in identity—there’s so many ways that diversity shows up in our world. And nature—biodiversity is important for our environment to thrive. And neurodiversity—brain diversity—is really important for us as humanity.
So neurodiversity is a fact—it’s not a new theory. It’s a fact: our brains are built differently. And when we add that to the way kids show up in the world, we can say that what if the reason that some kids have difficulty is because their brains are wired differently? And different is not broken. Different is a mismatch between the way most kids walk through the world, a mismatch between the way our education system is designed, or the way our community is designed, and the way this child’s brain works best.
10:59 Leslie: It’s that fit between the child and the environment. And that’s very important. I talk about that a lot in parenting. Even within a family—forget going outside to the school or to the community—you could be a child who, “I want to stay in, my brain says I want to make crafts, I want to do things.” And you are in a family where people are big sports people and they’re outside all the time. And the differences, the way we will show up in the world, can create a mismatch—a fit that doesn’t work. And we just need to understand that.
Keep going. This is great.
11:36 Dr Liz: I think that’s really important. Any parent who has more than one child knows that they show up really differently in the world. And they have different things they gravitate towards. You have to learn about your child every day—you have to learn who they are, how they show up. And when you have two kids who are built differently, you feel that in your family. Often, your second child needs to be parented very differently than the first child.
So there’s neurodiversity in our world, there’s neurodiversity in families. And then when we look at assessment, we can change the lens from the medical model to something that we would call a social model of disability. And here, the easiest way to understand a social model of disability is that there is a mismatch between what the expectations are of society, the social environment, and how my brain works. And that’s not to say that there aren’t challenges when you have a mismatch—there are things that are very, very difficult. And learning how to navigate that becomes really important. But it doesn’t mean your brain is broken, it means your brain is built differently.
And that is one of the things that I’ve dedicated my work to helping parents understand: “Here’s the way your child’s brain is built differently. And here’s where it can cause conflict with the way that the school is built, the way that society is built.” And we got to figure out what we’re going to do about that mismatch. And for kids as well, “Here’s how your brain is built. And when you’re looking at that mismatch, here’s how you can advocate for yourself.”
13:25 Leslie: And that’s teaching children as well as the parent: how to advocate. Obviously, if the parent is needed to help guide the child advocate, we want to help parents learn that information. But we want to teach the children…it’s the same thing—we want to empower the children, like you said in the beginning, we want to empower the children. And one of the things that I have tried to describe to parents is that in parenting, your job is not to fix your child—I say it over and over again. Because that comes from the same model of, “My child must be broken.” But instead, the title of my podcast, Is My Child A Monster? is all about: No, they’re misunderstood.
And so understanding them, that’s why this piece is so important to me, is that not every parent is going to get a formal diagnosis and sit with you and do a full neuropsych testing. But regardless, the message is the same: Can you understand how your child’s brain works? Is there a match between you and your child? When you were talking about—I loved it—a social model for diagnosis: Keep going—these kids can be empowered to help themselves.
14:35 Dr Liz: If it’s okay, I would love to touch on something you said about parents helping to self advocate. As we talk to kids, in this different way, I think it does really help parents to know how to advocate for their child. Because there’s a big difference when we say, “My child needs support because they have social deficits,” versus, “My child needs support because they communicate differently.”
And the way that that helps parents ask for help in a way that feels empowering to them as well. Because as a parent, you know your child as a wonderful amazing being that they are—you see all the sides. And when you have to be in a position to “advocate” for your child from a medical model, saying, “I need to let you know about all the deficits my child has,” that has an emotional effect as a parent to be going around saying, “My child can’t do, can’t do, can’t do.” And so when we flip the script, and we say, “Your child does things differently,” now I can advocate for what my child needs differently. And that makes a huge, huge difference.
So your next question was about the assessment process and what that looks like when we’re taking this approach. So this is tricky, because while we are shifting our lens, as a society, to understand neurodiversity, and then what we will call neurodivergence—when your brain really works differently than most brains—we still are stuck a bit in our tools diagnostically. Because I think there’s something really important about talking about neurodiversity, and empowering people to understand their brains. But also making sure that folks who have significant differences from the typical brains are getting the support that they really need. And we don’t want to fall into a false sense of, “Everybody’s different, so we’ll just respond, as needs come up.”
And so when we’re looking at a diagnosis, we’re identifying that there is a significant mismatch, there’s a mismatch that we can’t manage without changes. And that’s when we get into, kind of, diagnosis-range. And the medical model would say there’s an impairment. There is something that’s negatively affecting. I would say that there’s a significant mismatch that’s making things very, very hard on a regular basis. And the typical things we talked about at the beginning, the typical supports that we might put in place for most brains—they’re not working. And so we want to make sure that we can name what’s going on, so that this individual, this child, or this adult, can get the support that they need.
A diagnosis also gives you a language, kind of a shorthand for saying, “I need certain things.” So being able to say, “I’m autistic,” is really powerful, because you can say, “I’m autistic, and that means I might need to take more breaks during the day, or it means that having my headphones on really helps me, it means that standing in the back of the class helps me listen because I can move and that feels good to my body. sitting in a seat doesn’t feel good to my body.” So I think that those words are really powerful and really, really, really help.
18:17 Leslie: Beautiful. When you talked about helping the parent understand to say…you didn’t call it an impairment—what was the other word you used?
18:32 Dr Liz: …difference or significant mismatch…
18:35 Leslie: Oh, the difference, right. The difference and the mismatch. I was that child. And I feel like, if I got that information, I would take a huge sigh of relief. I’d say, “Oh, someone knows what I’m struggling with. Someone understands—they’re not clueless.” And when we don’t name it for them and help them, that’s where I think you talked about flipping the switch. That’s where they get these very…they’re shamed, “There must be something wrong with me.” These core beliefs start to develop about themselves. And that’s when we’re concerned, because now they’ve been living in that mismatch for along enough so that they have these belief systems around there.
19:23 Dr Liz: And those belief systems start so early. And so I think that one approach and the place where…there’s a couple of things that I did wrong in my first attempt to talk to a kid about—in this case, it was dyslexia—to talk to them about it is that I was trying to be super positive. Isn’t that interesting? My mistake is I was being so positive. And I’ve actually had multiple kids tell me, “I’m so tired of hearing about all my superpowers. You’re obviously not hearing my struggle.” Sometimes not in so many words, sometimes they just run out to the car crying, or that one time. But it’s just there is something so powerful, even with children as young as four or five, to validate: “I see you, I see what’s hard. And let me put it in, let me help you put it into context. So you see that you are not broken, and you are not alone.”
20:27 Leslie: And so this is what you do, when you’re talking to kids about the diagnosis? You’re giving them an honest…and that feels, probably like you said, counterintuitive. But it actually is the thing that seems like it works.
20:42 Dr Liz: Yeah. And so I can take you through how we do this, if that’s helpful to you.
20:49 Leslie: Go for it, go for it.
Dr Liz: All right.
[Music: Stand in the Forest by Olexy]
21:04 Dr Liz: So, parents often will ask, “Okay, well, how do I tell my child about this assessment? And I’ve found that just going through this process of how-I’m-going-to-tell my-child actually helps you, as the parent, understand the results. Because if you can’t answer these questions, you need to ask your assessor, “Hey, I’m having trouble coming up with this verbiage. Can you help me?” So this is helping parents to figure out how to explain to their child and helping them to figure out, “When do I have to go back to the tester to ask, ‘hey, I actually wasn’t clear on this.’”
And so we’ve got a couple of different parts and—everything I’m going to talk about, by the way, if it’s okay to plug the website…
Dr Liz: So, explainingbrains.com/parents—there are a ton of tools. And this is a script, there’s a script there that you just fill in the blanks of how to talk to your child. And it starts with figuring out what’s something that the child knows is tricky for them. Because we want to do this in a way that’s going to solve a problem for them. So it might be something like, “You how you’ve been saying that homework is so boring? Well, I learned some things that might help us figure out why that’s been so tricky. Can I share with you what I learned?”
22:27 Leslie: Yeah, now they’re curious.
22:29 Dr Liz: Right. And you’ve asked permission. And that’s so important. It’s such a little thing that is so important to say, “Hey, we’re obviously about to have a discussion that’s about you, and something that could be very vulnerable. So I’m going to ask permission, which means that you have the power to say yes, or no. And if you say yes, you have the power to say no, in a few minutes, if you want to.” And I think it’s really important, because kids have different capacities to process information.
And then I let them know that we learned something about their brain. “The brain has many different parts. And they’re all working together to help you learn and do what you want to do. And there are neurons inside your brain, these little tiny cells that are connecting all the time. And it’s kind of like you have pathways or billions of tiny roads in your brain. And so some of these roads are like highways for you. These are things that maybe you’ve practiced so much that they come really easily to you. So you’ve made a super strong connection. Or maybe the things that came easily to you, it’s just the way your brain was built with these superfast highways for certain things. So I’ve thought of a couple of things. But can you think of some things that are highways for you?”
And I’m going to invite the child to tell me in their own words, “What are some things you know? So, drawing? Yep, I would agree, drawing is something that’s definitely a highlight for you. You’ve always loved drawing. Dancing—absolutely. I was also thinking about how math has become a highway this year for you. And we’re just going to make a list of all the highways we can think about.” And so we’ve established, “Look, your brain is amazing. But now we’re going to talk about things that are challenging, and we’re going to validate that experience, but we talk about it as under construction. And this is so important because if something’s under construction, it’s dynamic, it’s moving, it’s not broken. And if it feels broken, we are working together to get it back to where we want it to be. It is dynamic.”
“So there’s also some things that are more challenging for your brain. You can think of these as your construction projects—the things that your brain is building. So, we’re building new roads—can you think of some things that your brain is working on? And I will tell you that sometimes it’s helpful to think about the things that your brain used to be working on that it’s not working on anymore. So maybe that’s like riding your bike or swimming, or that math example. And then what do you think your brain’s working on next? What is your brain working on now?” And these ones, we might list one or two, maybe three at the most, but depending on the age of your child for young children, one thing that they’re working on.
And again, we can ask them, “What is something that you’re thinking about, and here’s something I learned, your brain is working on. You’re working on pausing to raise your hand at school, you feel like that’s a construction project.” And then we let them know: “You’re not alone. It turns out, you’re not alone. Lots of people have highways and construction projects, just like yours. In fact, it’s so common, it’s called this. It’s called ADHD. It’s called autism. It’s called dyslexia. It’s called neurodiversity.”
“Maybe, because sometimes you don’t have a firm diagnosis, or you get through the assessment. And you don’t know if you agree with the diagnosis, or there isn’t one or you don’t like the words that the assessor used. And that’s okay, we can just say this is how we talk about neurodiversity. And for you, this means your brain is built in a way that makes your highways come easily and your construction projects more difficult.”
And that’s how we describe it to children. So you have a personalized definition of what these things mean.
26:29 Leslie: And then you have a language for the parents.
26:33 Dr Liz: Exactly. You have a way to talk to educators, too: “This is what we learned about my child.” And again, if this is hard for you to answer, it’s a great script to bring to your assessor to say, “Hey, can you help me translate this to child-friendly language?” Because it will help you, as a parent, understand your child better, because you’re making it real, you’re making it everyday. And we’re awful as practitioners, using tons of jargon and just bringing things to this abstract level. And a lot of practitioners have difficulty making it real. And this makes it real.
27:08 Leslie: And I actually have a…because working with parents so much, I can hear the parents who would be saying to me, “Yeah, but…” And the “yeah, but…” is, “Yeah, but we still have to fix my child, my child needs to be…” They hold on, because they were raised in that model of: there must be something wrong. I find—and I don’t know if you find it—that parents get a little attached to, “You, but you have to fix them, so they don’t go through life and it’s not going to be hard for them.”
And it’s hard to really accept that our brains are different. And we are going to go through life, all of us, working on the areas that are under construction. We really want to help parents maybe shift…and you can talk about that if you find that parents do hold on to it. Or they are easily shifting to the model of,”Okay, great. This is really helpful,” as opposed to, “I need to fix my child because they’re going to suffer.”
28:11 Dr Liz: Yeah. And I think that that last piece, “…or they’re going to suffer,” is the piece that no parent wants their child to suffer. “So, awesome, they’re different. And the world’s still built the way that it is. So how do I help my child not have such a hard time?” And I think that’s where, as we extend the metaphor, it actually can be really, really helpful. So, because if our brains are under construction, then we need tools. And we need a construction crew.
And tools are the strategies or the literal tools, like fidgets or, “I’m on a wobble stool, because it helps me stay alert.” And the physical things are the strategies that we use, that we learn so that things become easier. So if my highways are about remembering things that I see, then I want to make a lot of things visual, because that’s how my brain works. I’m going to learn how to visualize things while I’m reading. Because the words don’t make sense on their own. And I’m going to practice that. And it’s a strategy. It’s a tool I can use. I’m going to learn how to use it, just like I would have to learn how to use a hammer correctly.
Or I’d have to learn how to use different tools depending on my project. I also have a construction crew, and those are the people who are going to help me and they may help me by changing my environment a bit. So for instance, for an easy one for tests, I’m going to take a test in a different room, because it helps me focus and it reduces my anxiety. And those are environmental changes my construction crew might help me with.
And so having a different brain and taking the social model, it doesn’t mean we’re not learning skills to help navigate the world. What it means is that we are really striking that balance between the things that I’m going to learn and be able to use, and then the way I can advocate to help my environment change, because when we change the environment to help neurodivergent brains, it helps all brains.
30:24 Leslie: But your whole construction zone, the highways, the way our brains work, the tools, the people, the skills—that’s just music to my ears. And using that language—I’ve already been using that language in my work—is just… actually not the “construction zone.” So I’m going to enhance my language, because whether you actually go through a formal diagnosis or not, because not everyone is going to go through a formal diagnosis and formal assessment. There’s that question of, “What am I missing? And what can I learn?” Because, that, to me, is your job as a parent, to help you guide your child into making sure your child understands who they are by the time they’re adults. By the way, I have had these conversations where, and I’m sure you have, with many adults who never had the opportunity to get the missing information.
31:19 Dr Liz: Yes, so often. And that was so paramount to designing this, too; is talking to adults and asking them about their childhood experiences. And so it’s critical. And I use the same metaphor with adults, because it’s so helpful. It just brings it to a really rooted place and practical place,
31:40 Leslie: Does it ever happen where, after the assessment, the parent says, “Can I talk to you about my highways and my construction zones?”
Dr Liz: All the time.
Leslie: So, it’s biological. You’re teaching people how their brains work. And then you’re, like, “Where’s this come from?” It’s a really important question, then parents get to learn about themselves, which helps with the fit.
32:03 Dr Liz: I tell parents, actually, at the intake session, “One of the things that might happen is you might end up learning more about yourself than your child. And I want you to know that my door is open for that conversation, if it feels helpful. And many parents have taken me up on it. So, it’s just we’re related to our children.
32:23 Leslie: Yes. And it’s important to understand, and we go through so much of life sometimes without that information. And it’s confusing to us. And it may be harmful to us when we actually don’t understand it.
So now, what three things would you want parents to take away from this conversation?
32:41 Dr Liz: I think that the biggest one is how important it is to talk to your child about their brain, and to do it early, and to do it often. So maybe those are my three things: Talk to your child. Do it early. Do it often.
Because learning is not a single event—it is a journey. And that’s amazing as a parent, because you don’t have to get it right the first time. And you don’t have to make sure you get everything in there the first time, you can just start talking about neurodiversity, just start talking about how brains are different. Talk about your own highways, talk about your own construction projects; which we are all just in it every day and building our brains.
And so it’s an easy thing to talk about. And integrating that language helps the conversation continue, so that your child is developing a really strong self narrative throughout their life as they discover who they are. And as you discover more about them.
33:48 Leslie: Yes. I love your three takeaways. Teach them, it’s important information; and say it often, and say it early. Love it. So, where can people find you?
34:08 Dr Liz: You can find me and all of my tools at explainingbrains.com and then click the parent button. And there you are going to find the script that I referred to. That is just a fill-in-the-blank. You’ll also find a whole suite of tools for autism, ADHD, dyslexia, talking about behavioral challenges with kids. And every one of those pages has on it an article that’s specific to how to talk to kids about specific diagnoses. And it has a spreadsheet with videos you can show your child so that they know they’re not alone and they can see others who have similar experiences. And just a host of different things that are specific to the different diagnoses. Or a lot of the tools available just to talk about neurodiversity in general.
And you can also find a ton of examples. I post when kids and I come up with great ways to describe their brains. I do post on Instagram, with their permission. And so there’s a lot of examples, and it’s just at explainingbrains.com, same tag. And there’s a ton of examples of how we talk to kids and how we define these different words, to really help them understand their brain.
35:33 Leslie: That’s fantastic. I hope everyone goes running to your website and all of these resources. Which is another goal of mine—helping parents have access to more resources. Because we know it’s very hard to get this information. So, thank you so much for being here with me today and with all of our listeners, and keep doing what you’re doing, because we all need it.
35:57 Dr Liz: Thank you so much. It’s been really fun.
[Music: The Wilds Beyond by L-Ray Music]
35:59 Leslie Cohen-Rubury: I want to thank Dr. Liz Angoff for joining me today. I resonated with so many of her points and perspectives. I encourage you to check out her website, explainingbrains.com. You can find links to everything in the show notes.
Join us next week where you get to meet single mom, Salima. You’re going to hear about her three very different children who need very different things from their mom. In our first session, we talk about how hard it is to regulate your own emotions when your child is acting out.
Subscribe to Is My Child A Monster? wherever you get your podcast, so you don’t miss an episode. And if you like what you hear, please share it with a friend. You can find a full transcript of this episode or subscribe to my newsletter at ismychildamonster.com. The Is My Child A Monster? team is Alletta Cooper, AJ Moultrié, Camila Salazar, and me. Special thanks to Eric Rubury our theme music is by L-Ray Music. I’m Leslie Cohen-Rubury. Thanks so much for listening. And this week, keep in mind this comment from Dr. Liz: Talk to your child about their brain. Do it early. Do it often.
[Music: The Wilds Beyond by L-Ray Music]
Subscribe to Is My Child A Monster? wherever you get your podcasts, so you don’t miss an episode. And if you like what you hear, please rate and review on Apple podcasts. You can find a full transcript to this episode and sign up for my newsletter at ismychildamonster.com. The Is My Child A Monster? team is Alletta Cooper, AJ Moultrié, Camila Salazar, and me. Special thanks to Eric Rubury and Mia Warren. Our theme music is by L-Ray Music. I’m Leslie Cohen-Rubury. Thanks so much for listening. And this week, let’s honor the individual learning styles of children and adults alike.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai edited by Eric Rubury